Winston tells Julia about Katharine

Winston tells Julia the story of his married life with Katharine, including the 'frigid little ceremony' they performed once a week. Julia immediately guesses that Katharine used to call it 'our duty to the Party.' Julia says she would have pushed Katharine over the cliff, and Winston admits he is sorry he didn't. He reflects that some kinds of failure are better than others. Julia always contradicts him when he says that the individual is always defeated. She believes that it is possible to construct a secret world in which you can live as you choose. Winston replies, 'We are the dead.'